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Recording of a Roman woman singing

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Oliver Lodge:
Belief and Skepticism

Sir Oliver Lodge

recorded in 1965


Windows Media


Sir Oliver Lodge was professor of physics at University of London and at the University of Liverpool. He was elected fellow of the Royal Society in 1887, awarded the Albert Medal of the Royal Society of Arts for his pioneer work in wireless telegraphy, and knighted in 1902. He was president of the British Association in 1913. His great reputation as a physicist was established by his research in electricity, thermoelectricity, and in wireless (radio) and theories of matter and ether.

In this seance in 1965, he describes the difficulties with proving spiritual truths to people because of science, their religious beliefs, and the fact that a medium is always involved.

The seance begins with some talk among George Woods, Betty Greene, and Leslie Flint as Lodge attempts to come through.

Sir Oliver Lodge's Seance

I’m not quite sure if you can hear me. It is some considerable time since last I was able to speak. This is Lodge here. Good morning. I am very happy indeed to be able to come, if only for a few minutes but I must say it is such a long time since I spoke that I am rather out of the habit. I am tremendously interested, of course, in the tremendous advances that have been made on your side scientifically in many different fields and we are and have been for a very long time, working on this side, on a method between your world and ours that will be accepted eventually I’m sure, scientifically, and we’re hoping, eventually to be able to make communication in such a way from a scientific aspect that no one could ever doubt the authenticity and reality of it. Whether we shall completely ever do away with mediums as such… I think somewhere the human element obviously cannot be done without, I think there must be this human element—even though we may produce scientific instruments that will make communication possible between the two worlds. I am sure we'll not be able to do without the help, in some capacity, of the medium. The only thing is that it will not be in the same sense or form as it is now used.

In Russia there seems to be a great deal of interest in this subject, although mostly from a scientific aspect, certain scientists are very interested in communication, and already experimenting on certain lines. It may well be from Russia that we shall have the first indication of really scientific communication with the aid of instruments. So little is understood even now, about our world and communication and mediumship, by its very nature must be a fluctuating thing and we are subject to all sorts of conditions far beyond your comprehension.

Good mediumship is very rare. It is by no means, as common as it was in my earthly time. Then we seemed to have a variety of medium of all types, in particularly very powerful physical mediums, which was a great asset and enabled us to conduct experiments and satisfactorily prove survival. At least as far as I personally was concerned and many others. Today mediumship seems to be now on a mental level. This is all right in its way but it does not lend itself so well to scientific investigation. Tremendous progress has been made scientifically since my lifetime. But course, there are certain aspects of it that distress one but many of the things that have already been discovered, and other things yet to be brought into the light, and if they can be used, as we hope and pray they will, to the benefit of man, a tremendous blessing.

My main interest is really in the scientific aspect of this whole subject and though I speak in this fashion to you, through the agency of a medium, I look forward to the time, when it may be possible, in fact we are sure it will be possible, by the process of scientific instruments, machinery to be able to tune in to a higher rate of vibration far beyond the human ear as you understand it, on a rate so unique in itself, it will have to be brought down, transformed, transferred as it were to an audible sound and speech eventually, after all, this is exactly what in a sense one does when one communicates in this particular fashion. It is transmission of one’s thought into sound and being reproduced, vibrating the atmosphere, creating sound. Perhaps I might almost say, recreating it.

We have a method which we are now working on, which we feel we shall be able to reproduce through instruments, scientific instruments—sounds. The voices of people long since, as your world calls it "dead", who will communicate. The mastery of this method is not yet complete. There are those, who for various very good reasons perhaps, are not prepared at this stage to come forward with any particular information. We may say that it is not very far off before Russia, certain scientists in Russia, who are experimenting on certain lines, will stumble rather than perhaps from the point of view than deliberately seeking, in seeking something else, will stumble across this method, which we are trying to help with. Their idea is to produce certain instruments for communication, on certain wave lengths; on vibrations rates if possible with seers already to some extent successful. They have been receiving pulsations and they have been receiving certain sounds which are outside a long way outside the range of earthly sound but we know that accidentally rather than intentionally because they don’t know of our helping this. They will stumble, they will be receiving messages over a long period which will be brought into sound on earth. This is something I don’t feel, at the moment one can go into deeply.

America too is on similar lines but I think, in fact I know that they are not so far advanced in this, this anxiety, this desire to discover more of outer space, to discover what the various planets are like, what they consist of, what the conditions would be should a man land and so on . Well they are not interested, even aware of the possibility of man, who once lived on earth, living on spheres in the atmosphere, communicating. They are more concerned with worlds which they have been aware for sometime which gradually are coming closer and closer by the help of science, brought into a great reality. They are going to discover, much to their surprise, worlds of human beings who once inhabited earth and who still continue to live in a higher field of activity because it will be mind reaching out, in other words, it will be thought forces, reaching out to man which will be picked up.

This is something they are not anticipating but we are taking full advantage of what they are doing on your side that scientifically we can use it to some extent to prove our identity, to prove our reality, to prove we truly do exist after death, that there is a world after death, physical death, in which millions of souls of all nationalities are still existing and developing and evolving and have a greater intelligence, and have greater response to life. This is a living reality of which I speak, which I have already said we are hoping eventually to scientifically prove to those in your world who are at the moment not aware of what is going on, but who will be surprised at certain things that will happen. They will at first, no doubt, think that they are in communication with intelligences from other planets, but it will be made clear to them that the intelligence are of the individuals and souls on this side who are desperately trying to communicate. It will be a revelation and we hope that eventually it will bring a greater understanding among people of the earth.

We can see much of the futility of conditions which have been created through ignorance and indeed intolerance, We are indeed very distressed when we look into your world and see the dreadful, terrible conditions which have arisen through man's intolerance and foolishness and we are anxiously hoping to prevent catastrophe and we feel that if we can break through and do this in that scientific way of which I speak, it will deter man from “going to the brink” of the abyss. We are very much concerned when we see your prison world and the terrible, terrible state which man has allowed himself to get into......'

Science properly used is a blessing to man. Much that is given to man through science could mean for man a better way of life and a happier one. There are a limited few who see it, often, as a weapon which can be used in defense, so they say, or war. This is an appalling fact and instead of being used for mans' good it is often used for mans' destruction. We have seen it in the past and want to avoid it in the future. We who come from this side, particularly those of us who come with the idea of being of service, of being of value and help to your world, are distressed and appalled when we see the state and condition of your world. We are concerned with improving, if we can and I’m sure we can, eventually in this scientific way of which I try to give you some idea. But it will be, it must be. The time is not too far distant when there is such a scientific aspect of communication. There will be no doubts and it will be universally accepted and then perhaps we shall see the true beginning of the Brotherhood of man. We shall see many of the old barriers knocked down and we shall see that man has realised, perhaps for, the very first time, will see how vital and necessary it is for him to band together and break down the barriers that separate, creed, religion, and politics. Barriers that man has built up over the centuries of time.

We are hoping and praying that it may not be too long before the first fruits of our labour will become apparent. That you will be hearing, and I make this a definite prophesy, you will be hearing, I feel sure, very soon be hearing of certain things which will give you some idea and knowledge of which I have tried to convey. Certainly there will be the beginnings of this breakthrough. It’s not too far off particularly in Russia, where science is progressive. You know it is to us a most amazing thing, Russia which less than fifty years ago was one of the most backward nations in the world in which there was no opportunity for the people, whatsoever, to progress, have come now to become really scientifically the leading nation in the world. They have become a taut knit nation. I know there are many aspects which one might condemn but I must speak purely scientifically of the nation and of their amazing scientific advance that has been made by these people who fifty years ago could neither read nor write and had no schooling, no opportunity. It is to me a most extraordinary thing. If they can make this advance, as they have done in this last fifty years, what they will and may achieve in this next twenty five years alone, is fantastic and one has to say that it is from Russia from a scientific point of view that one may expect to see these advances not that America will be far behind but I feel from the point of view of scientific communication between our world and yours, it is in Russia that we shall see the first signs.

There certainly seems to be more advancement there and we certainly are working with certain scientists in the hope of producing something very definite in the very near future. If it is published which I think it will be brought to light, I don't think it is something we would want to hold back, because it would be of no value in a material sense. It is purely something of the mind. The Russians for a long time have been piercing the veil, experimenting scientifically with thought force and power of thought and what it can achieve. They have been very active on a mental level, very advanced indeed. You will see this. I tell you this: very shortly you will see the beginning of this.

I am very interested in what you, dear friends, are doing. I know there are difficulties. There are bound to be limitations of certain kinds but I know that you bring lightness and I think you are very fortunate in as much that you have got this mediumship; but you know as much as one may admire good mediumship, which is rare, we are looking forward to the scientific break through.

George Woods: asks about flying saucers coming from other planets.

Of course there are other planets, who are endeavouring to make contact. They are curious and interested in your world, just as in your world there are certain scientists and people who are interested in other planets. Of course they do exist, and of course there is a lot of "nonsense talked and a lot of things which don’t apply but of course there entities, souls trying to break through in a scientific way from other planets into your world and who are in a position, as I would say, in some senses more advanced and are trying to make contact in their own way, but I think I can say, with absolute truth that of course they are very apprehensive. You see you must not think, that souls on other planets who are endeavouring to communicate, at least who are interested in your world are not unaware of the mentality of the mass.

You see you have got to accept there is every reason for them to be suspicious of the motives of the peoples of the earth, who for generations have lived by war and who whatever advance scientifically, at least many of the scientific advances materially that have been made, have been used for destruction rather than good. You see there is apprehension on some planets where there is a realisation of things on earth because of an attitude of mind because you see you cannot avoid the Mass mind which generates in your world, which pierces the etheric conditions your world. If you could see the etheric vibrations and conditions around your world you would understand and realise why they must be apprehension on various spheres and planets. Even with ourselves who come to communicate, we are very conscious of this very strong powerful etheric force around your world which is pushed out constantly by millions and millions of minds and thoughts which in themselves are not good. They are very heavy. They are concerned with materialism to such a degree and there is so much fear.

There is a tremendous force around your world of which you know nothing, which makes it difficult for communication apart from anything else. It is an amazing thing that you do receive the communications that you do, because if you could see it as I see it, many of us are aware, the conditions round your world are appalling. This is brought about by man himself by the very thoughts he generates all the time. It is to us like a fog. It’s a terrible atmosphere around your world. The whole of your world is living in fear. All the time you are, as it were, living on like the edge of a precipice. You never know quite what the next day will bring forth. You have had certain indications recently of what can happen accidentally but my goodness me, I don’t think people of the earth realise every second and every moment is fraught with danger. You have so much power of destruction in your world at the present moment, already to be set off at a moments notice and I do not think humanity realises what it has done to itself.

It has built up a tremendous stockpile of force and power of destruction. The whole world is full of fear and intolerance. The brotherhood of man has been pushed into the background. The churches do nothing. They side with governments, they side with force, in necessary, they pretend to be pacifistic yet at the same time they are far from pacifistic. At the same time they are supposed to follow Christ, the man of God, the Prince of Peace, the man who had nowhere to lay his head... yet all the while they deny him in their very thoughts and their actions by supporting power. Why does the church not come out in a vast body of strength and denounce this horror which man has built? This terrible condition under which you live, this intolerable situation which man has brought upon himself through fear.

Mrs. Greene: People who have seen the saucers say they can feel a terrific spiritual feeling when they are near them.

But of course. I think it is perfectly true, that they would and they must because the motives and the desires of the souls who are trying to link up with your world, from whatever planet or sphere they may come from, is for good. Every soul is concerned for the welfare of man, for the good of man, but you see we see all the dangers. We see how you are, all the time, preparing, in every sense, not only physically it is mental too. You see the whole atmosphere in your world, to us, is appalling. Man has created so much havoc in the past and now he has weapons which quite frankly, that there could be nothing left. It would only need a few to be set of. Haven’t you had an education recently—this Spanish business. Well quite honestly it should prove to people the terrible danger, even by a sheer accident, under which you exist today. To me it is frightening, to me it is appalling, to me it is something which I find almost unbelievable that people with intelligence and reasoning power, particularly those who profess to have spiritual beliefs and spiritual desires can allow themselves to sit back and do nothing; to me it is an extraordinary state of affairs but I can’t stay. May God Bless, Now I must go, Goodbye.


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